Deputy Prime Minister and MDC leader Arthur Mutambara was recently a guest on SW Radio Africa's Hot Seat programme. In this second part of their discussion with journalist Violet Gonda, Mutambara explains why the “30 day deadline” given by the SADC Troika to implement the agreed 24 outstanding issues in the power sharing agreement is meaningless. He also comments on reports of internal divisions in his party. Is Secretary General Welshman Ncube challenging Mutambara’s leadership and to what extent has the party been affected by the reported mass defections to the rival MDC led by Morgan Tsvangirai?

VIOLET GONDA: First I asked Professor Mutambara what will happen if the coalition government fails to meet the 30-day deadline.

MUTAMBARA: I think first and foremost already that question is a false question because you are not referring to the SADC communiqué. When you go to the SADC communiqué Violet, there’s no 30 days there indicated, there’s no word elections in the SADC communiqué, that’s another area where we are not being leaders ourselves. SADC is a very sophisticated institution; they do a summit, after the summit they draft what they want to be in the public domain. They draft what they want to be their decisions.

If you go to that communiqué you don’t see 30 days written down, you don’t see the word elections written down and it’s for a good reason. If they had said in their communiqué, like they did in Mozambique by the way – in Mozambique they put a deadline. This time if you go to the SADC communiqué there is no 30 days indicated because they know that they will be setting themselves up for failure and creating unnecessary conflicts.

The 30 days is coming from internal communication we had at the Troika, which actually was never communicated by SADC to the world and you must ask them why they didn’t do that. Ask them – we understand you’ve got a 30-day deadline that Zuma spoke about at the Troika, why is it not in your communiqué?

I said this to say this is some of the problems we create for ourselves by when we go into details that are not supposed to be out there according to the institution. The institution of SADC spoke for itself but what leaders then did after the conference was to go out and give out what they felt was the SADC position. In other words I’m simply saying to you, it’s a false question because I can tell you given what happened after Maputo, that 30-day number is a meaningless number and that’s why it’s not in the SADC communiqué.

GONDA: So Professor, you are saying there is no 30-day deadline to implement the 24 outstanding issues?

MUTAMBARA: It was discussed but it is not in the SADC communiqué. Did you see it in the SADC communiqué?

GONDA: It was discussed by who?

MUTAMBARA: It’s in the Troika, but I’m just trying to encourage you to respect SADC as an institution. In the SADC communication to the world, they did not give that 30-day deadline.

GONDA: So what does that mean then…?

MUTAMBARA: It means it is not an important number. Ask them, I think I can’t speak for them, I think I must respect that.

GONDA: Yes but as government, does this mean you’re not going to work within the 30-day deadline as discussed by the Troika…?

MUTAMBARA: We’re going to do it, we’re going to do it as an internal deadline, we’re going to do it as people who believe in the urgency of now but I’m trying to encourage you as a media practitioner, I’m trying to encourage you as a Zimbabwean to say don’t create positions for institutions. SADC as an institution did not give you that 30 days. Where did you get it from?

GONDA: But Professor that’s why we are discussing this. You mentioned that the Troika discussed the 30-day deadline, so I’m asking you as government, what does this mean to you? What happens if nothing has not been implemented within the 30 days…?

MUTAMBARA: We keep working. Remember we went to Maputo and we were given a deadline and it was six months later before it was accomplished, We keep working. Work in progress.

GONDA: So basically it’s just business as usual because so far …

MUTAMBARA: Yah but I’ve tried to encourage you to say, why don’t you have a conversation with the SADC Secretariat or the SADC leadership and ask them – we heard that you had this 30-day in your Troika discussions, why is it not in your communiqué? It means it is not an important number OK?
Nothing will happen in 30 days and let’s not create unnecessary crisis, you know that’s what I’m trying to say – let’s work together, let us cooperate with each other, let us realise that we need each other.
Zimbabweans across the board must put national interest before self-interest. ZANU PF, MDC-T, our party, we must all work together and create a new Zimbabwe in terms of our society, in terms of our politics, in terms of our economy. We are going to sink or swim together.

GONDA: You mentioned the Roy Bennett, Johannes Tomana and Gideon Gono issue, if there’s still a stalemate on those three issues, what does it actually mean in terms of the progress of the unity government?

MUTAMBARA: You know the best way to answer that is by concentrating on the 24 and doing them. No if we were to completely implement the 24 and do them judiciously, expeditiously, efficiently, effectively, they will make the three totally unimportant and totally non-consequential.

They always remain, and by the way, they must be solved but if we were to resolve the 24 in terms of implementation, it will take the sting away from the three that are problematic.

In fact it will resolve some of the issues you’ve been asking me – media reforms, electoral reforms – but those are agreed. So my answer to you is, let’s concentrate on the areas where there is agreement and do those things and try to find each other in those three. If we were to implement the 24, the three would become less painful to suffer.

GONDA: And Professor Mutambara, it has been reported that your power base is under threat internally. Can you talk to us about this?

MUTAMBARA: No. no. no, when I have commented I have said this is one of the areas people spend a lot of time on irrelevant, unimportant matters. What we establish in our party is called democracy.
Our party is a democratic party; our country is a democratic country so we as a party feel that we must now start walking the talk. This means in my party, any individual, any individual has the right to run for any position including the president of the party.

Any individual from our party has the right to run for any position in the country, be it to be governor, to be MP, to be senator, to be president of Zimbabwe. We are trying to move away from the politics where certain positions are reserved or sacred and there’s no competition in the party.

We are a very democratic party that encourages competition, that wants to walk the talk on democracy and hence that’s why there’s been a lot of discussions on is this one available for this and so on and we’ve been trying to say through our leaders, in particular our Secretary General who has been quoted in the media.

The message from our Secretary General is very simple : we are a democratic party and any individual in our party has the right to run for any position. That is democracy. The other message is that any individual in Zimbabwe has the right to run for any position in the country.

That is if you want to be an MP, a senator, a governor, or president of Zimbabwe. We want to build a new culture in Zimbabwe and we’re starting at home. Charity begins at home and we’re doing it in our party; openness, transparency, competition.

GONDA: So is the Secretary General Welshman Ncube challenging your leadership?

MUTAMBARA: But I’ve already answered that. I’m saying that everyone, anyone in our party including the Professor Ncube has the right to run for any position in our party and what is wrong with that? That’s why we’ve said it’s a very interesting debate, it shows that our country has a long way to go because it’s a no-brainer, it’s a non-issue because in any democratic culture that should be permissible.

So we are actually saying we are walking the talk, we are a democratic party and our Secretary General, any individual in our party has a right to run for any position including the presidency.

And by the way our Congress is about six months, seven months away that’s why we’ve said really we should encourage Zimbabweans to be concentrating on the economy, on the constitution, on national building because those are the bread and butter issues that affect our country but we stand by democratic principles.

GONDA: What about the reports of massive defections from your party? It is reported that at least 35 members of your party have defected to the MDC-M.

MUTAMBARA: Yah we again respect the right of people to associate with whoever they want so if there’s anyone who wants to leave our party, we congratulate them and welcome them to take a move but at the same time, there’s also a lot of propaganda and competition where people plant individuals who are no longer members of the party, who have left the party a long time ago and then they go to the press and announce that they’ve defected and so on.

It’s another manifestation of this problem where we are competing too much. This inclusive government time is a time of cooperation. MDC-T, ourselves and ZANU should not be trying to score points against each other – oh ten people have defected from you to me, I’m doing better – this is not the time for that.

This is the time for national interest. Look at our students – I call them our students because they came after us – Nick Clegg and David Cameron – the Lib Dems and the Conservatives – they’ve said for five years no competition between the two of them. For five years there’ll be no confidence votes in parliament.

It’s actually an undemocratic thing to do but what they’re emphasising is that this is the time for cooperation. We are in the same government. Let us not try to score cheap scores against each other. After the inclusive government we can take off the gloves, then go and have a good democratic fight.

For now Zimbabweans must concentrate on those things that unite them. Zimbabweans must concentrate on the national interest and de-emphasise their differences and minimise confrontation and competition. This is the time for cooperation in Zimbabwe.

GONDA: Some people say there are deep problems in your party and that with the defections you’ll be left with no party. Can you comment on this?

MUTAMBARA: We don’t comment on meaningless statements and we dismiss that with the contempt that it deserves. I’ve already analysed to you that most of the things you are reporting on are falsehoods peddled by some of our opponents.

Fortunately we are in the same government and we are trying to encourage those people who are doing that to say – ‘why don’t you just worry about the country, why are you concerned about my survival, why are you concerned about the survival of my party? Right now it’s not about Mutambara, right now it’s not about MDC-A or MDC-B, right now it’s about Zimbabwe’.

To concentrate on what is good for all of us as opposed to pontificating on the demise or lack of it of this or the other political party. Whoever is peddling falsehoods, whoever is feeding in the gutter, must get out of the gutter and be part of the Zimbabwean agenda which cooperation, which is building a new country. I think what is happening in the country, we are all damaged now.

We find insults, we find competition, we find bad news more attractive than good news. Why don’t you concentrate on what is positive about our country? Why don’t you concentrate on that which unite us and just ignore the confrontations, to ignore the differences. For the duration of the inclusive government, our concentration is on the country, not parties, not individuals.

GONDA: You mentioned elections earlier on, when are by-elections going to be held because I understand there are a currently ten vacant seats in parliament and six in the senate?

MUTAMBARA: The law of Zimbabwe must be respected and that means that we must carry out those by-elections as prescribed by our laws and I think the Speaker, the president and ZEC must do all that they are supposed to do at law and facilitate the expeditious execution of those by-elections.

GONDA: What about the agreement that you made as the three parties in the inclusive government that there would not be any by-elections…?

MUTAMBARA: No, no, no, no, you are mis-stating it. The agreement was that in the event of a by-election, we don’t contest against each other. So the by-election must still take place and so the agreement says MDC-T, ZANU PF and ourselves don’t contest each other but independents can contest, ZANU Ndonga can contest, Mavambo can contest, ZAPU can contest.

So for example in the areas the three for example that we lost, we can put candidates there, what it means is that Tsvangirai and Mugabe cannot put candidates in those areas but ZANU Ndonga can, Mavambo can and ZAPU can and independents can contest.

So the agreement we have which is almost a gentlemen’s agreement or lady-like agreement has nothing to do with the constitution. The constitution must be respected and the by-elections must be carried out as per the constitution.

GONDA: So when is the constitution going to be respected?

MUTAMBARA: Well I think I’ve given you the authorities on that subject – it’s the Speaker, it’s ZEC, it is the president so we can do our part to ensure that those three institutions and persons carry out the requirements of the constitution.

GONDA: And a final word Professor.

MUTAMBARA: Well (after we buried) Gibson Sibanda, a great Zimbabwean, a national hero, a hero of heroes, a soldier of soldiers, a leader of leaders we must take a step back and be reflective and say what is it that this man stood for when he fought in the liberation struggle, smuggling weapons between Zambia and Rhodesia, when he was detained in Hwahwa and Marondera, what is it that he stood for? In the labour movement when he toiled and worked hard with the ZCTU what was it that was driving him?

When he was part of the formation of the MDC what is it that drove him? As the leader in this government, as part of the national healing and reconciliation what is it that Sibanda stood for and wanted for Zimbabwe? When we answer those questions we realise that we must embrace each other, we must find each other.

Gibson Sibanda was a great stabilising force, Gibson Sibanda was a great unifier. Let us be united so that the death of Sibanda is not in vain. Let us give respect to Sibanda by closing ranks across the political divide and drive our Zimbabwean national interest and work together towards the creation of a peaceful, prosperous and democratic nation.

If we do not use this opportunity of the inclusive government to create common frameworks in our country, a new constitution, a new national vision, a new brand for our country, a new values system – if we don’t do this we would have let down brother, father, fellow Zimbabwean Gibson Sibanda.

 Since we have discussed other matters let me give a parting shot again to encourage all of us to work together. The people in the Diaspora for example as I’ve indicated elsewhere, you don’t have to be in Zimbabwe to make a difference.

You can do it from wherever you are in terms of ideas on the constitution, ideas on reforms in the country, in terms of being an advocate for investors to come to Zimbabwe, in terms of linking up the institutions in the country to investors, linking institutions in the country to knowledge, to other institutions, networks, remittances.

We want to make sure that Zimbabweans wherever they are, in the country, in the Diaspora are working towards a collective Zimbabwean national interest.

We in the country as we craft a new constitution must also make sure that the Diasporian concerns like voting rights, allowing the Diaspora to vote in our elections must be worked on. Allowing dual citizenship for the people in the Diaspora must be done so that we leverage the Zimbabweans in the country, we leverage Zimbabweans in the Diaspora, we are one big family, let us work together, let us concentrate on what is uniting us.

We must all step up to the plate and be counted. We must become the change we seek to see in Zimbabwe. We must become masters of our own destiny. If we don’t, future generations will never forgive us. So it’s incumbent on all of us to step up to the plate and create a new Zimbabwe, a peaceful, prosperous and democratic Zimbabwe, that’s our mandate.

GONDA: Thank you very much Professor Mutambara.

MUTAMBARA: You’re welcome.

Feedback can be sent to violet@swradioafrica.com