Zimbabwe: How long before gays accepted?

Zimbabwe: How long before gays accepted?

• Zim gays honoured with Int award

• Mugabe fuels 'reformation' against gays

• Gays leader held outside State House

• Msipa quits Book Fair over gay row

• Gays flee mob at book fair

• Gays move closer to recognition in Zimbabwe

• 'Jonathan Moyo is gay' - Matsanga

The Gays and Lesbians of Zimbabwe was honoured with an international award for their fight for human rights in New York last week. We asked for your views on whether you thought it was time Zimbabweans embraced gays and lesbians. Below are some of your views.

Editor - There are just some things that we Africans will never budge on or sympathize with. One of those things is homosexuality and, for a country like Zimbabwe which has just over two decades of political independence and tyring to assert its cultural identity and heritage, homosexuality is just an embarassment. I may be opposed to the corrupt politics of the geriatric Mugabe but I think he speaks for Zimbabwe's moral conscience when he condemns gays and lesbians as "worse than dogs and pigs".

There is just no moral space for homosexuals in Zimbabwe and I think the sooner they recognize that, the better for all of us. We do not want to even debate about homosexuality in Zimbabwe because this issue can never be part of Zimbabwe's moral agenda. We have so many relevant moral questions to think of and crack our heads on and homosexuality is definitely NOT one of them. I thus vehemently believe that if homosexuals in Zimbabwe want to be left alone, they have two choices: to leave Zimbabwe or to leave Zimbabwe!
Munya Munochiveyi
Minnesota, USA

Editor - There is a distinction between tolerance and rights.

In Zimbabwe, tolerance of the homosexuality is not embraced as it has always been culturally taboo, just like the idea of red light districts (even though there is a very high occurence of prostitution in Zimbabwe). Homosexuality is not at all a new thing in the African context but it has been held with the contempt it so deserves. Like criminals, homosexuals have always been stigmatised and shunned. This should however, not diminish the rights of the homosexual people. The law should protect them whilst moderating their behaviour without persecution. Human rights should apply to all people irrespective of their beliefs. Even hardened criminals and murderers do have rights.

An outburst against the gay and lesbians by the highest authority of the land has led to international human rights campaigners into being actively involved in the support of GALZ as they feel there are human rights issues involved. Most people do not support the private activities of the homosexuals, yet they get into supporting them when central government appears to negate their rights to belong to an association of persons with unnatural tastes!

Think of it, if a government starts publicly flogging criminals on a daily basis, the criminals are bound to get sympathy from human rights campaigners. If central government does not tolerate the homosexuals, it still has a duty to up-hold their rights; such rights being to practise their unnatural sexual activities without fear of persecution for as long as they observe the need to be discreet since their activities may be repulsive to others.
Hopewell Masola
London

"We will be embracing serial killers and criminals next"

MORE FIRE, UK

Editor - I have heard some gays and lesbians say they were born like that and so people have to accept them. I`ve also heard some thieves and other criminals saying they were born with a tendency to steal but they are now locked up. Why? We will be embracing serial killers and criminals next. We shouldn`t follow the West blindly.
More Fire
UK

Editor - Gays and lesbians have not done any harm to Zimbabwe's economy or moral way of life, and should therefore be allowed to go on with their business. The present regime will not hesitate to use any minority group as a scapegoat for their dismal performance. Homosexuality has been there since the begining of time and will always be there, and there is nothing we can do to stop it.

It's high time we come to terms with this sexual orientation and give it the tolerance it deserves. This is coming from a hard mashona heterosexual male. In case some of you might be questioning my sexual orientation. ZANU PF has been using sodomy (male raping male) as weapon to silence opposition. Weaker males are raped daily by stronger inmates in Zimbabwe's prisons. Prominent politicians like president Banana have raped their male subordinates. I have even heard that during colonial days, in male only hostels (like Matapi), young boys were constantly raped by older male residents. Funny enough, all this sodomy is no big deal to the Zimbabwean government.

However, government suddenly has a problem with two consenting males. If a homosexual act is a willing buyer willing seller arrangement, then neither society nor government should have any involvement. The only moral decay in Zimbabwean society is being caused by the ruling party. Graveyards used to be sacred in Zimbabwean culture, but now people rob graves and now grow corn in graveyards. Now tell me where gays and lesbians fit in. Someone please show me the nexus. Before being hoodwinked by Bob's personal agenda Zimbabweans must always look at the gay issue with an open mind.
Joseph Madiro
Canada

Editor - I am in total disagreement with this type of behaviour. Its one of the worst in our cultures. Instead these people need VERY strong prayers. God did not create them that way but it's Satan, so I personally do not agree with this type of behaviour.
Ashley Kulimanya
Bulawayo

Editor - I believe that if we are to work towards a culture of respecting human rights it cannot be done on a piecemeal basis. Respect for human rights essentially means allowing individuals to exercise their freedoms and liberties without interference as long as they in turn do not violate anyone's rights in the process. Gays and lesbians who engage in consensual relationships do not harm anyone.

What continues to baffle me in this whole issue is that African societies are more tolerant of heterosexual rapists than they are of people who choose to be in loving same-sex relationships. Gays and lesbians argue that they do not choose to be that way inclined, but rather find themselves naturally attracted to people of the same sex. Who are we to judge?

The key point though is that we should not compartmentalize human rights. Once we identify a group whom we vilify on the grounds of sexual orientation, where do we draw the line? We could even go further and say the Jehovah’s Witness should have their right to religious orientation taken away because they do not “respect” the government.

The flimsy reasons that are often given - that it is un-African and un-Christian do not stand scrutiny. Homosexuality has been proven to occur in Africa for as long as one cares to go back into history. African culture (and many others the world over), the bible and indeed the Koran support the view that women are inferior to men. Why have governments started working towards protecting women's rights and enacting legislation that stipulates equality of men and women before the law?

It is only those governments which have embraced respect for human rights for every member of their societies that can truly claim to be democratic. Let's not turn a blind eye to the link between these issues – respect for human rights, rule of law, democracy and economic advancement. If we are going to take our tightful place among civilised societies, we have to go all the way - respect those whose way of life we may disagree with on whatever grounds. It is everyone's right to live their lives to the full, the best way they know how. In my many discussions with people who condemn same-sex unions, no one has been able to convince me quite how anyone's sexual orientation should be their problem and why it gets them so emotionally worked up. I believe our major problem is that we are just intolerant and until such a time as we truly embrace diversity, we will never focus on what are truly critical issues - economic advancement and eradicating the abject poverty that affects Africa more than any other continent.
Abigail Mphisa
Eritrea

Editor - Being Zimbabwean is not just a piece of paper Gay Goddard! Being Zimbabwean is the black blood that runs in our veins, it is our culture that we preserve and it is the morals that we were taught by our ancestors. "Human rights" as prescribed by your western colleagues are actually unGodly rights. Not so long ago, in Europe being gay was associated with mental health problems, even their ancestors never taught them such kind of sinning.

Let them give you that award, what are you going to do with it to help your children. Sorry, I forgot you can't have any because it's against nature. Take off my country's name from your association's name and call it something else beacuase it's not Zimbabwean. Today you have brainwashed our sons and daughters into disobeying the Almighty Jehovah God. For your kind of people Gay Goddard I wish Mugabe was Hitler. You and your friends all over the world are not human but just left overs of creation. Zimbabwe is a cultured nation and so are it's sons and daughters. To hell with gays and lesbians.
Son of the soil
UK

Editor - It is very important to note that Zim is a cultured nation and thus such practice is not within the context of our culture. I personally do not have any problem with the western countries awarding them whatever form of recognition as it is within their culture to accept such practices.
Claude
Harare

"A person is physically identified as a man or woman depending on their genitals. This definition is not complete"

GOLDEN, SOUTH AFRICA

Editor - The simple and honest answer is absolutely and categorically NO. Just because someone decides to jump into an unAfrican, evil and unnatural inferno does not mean we should follow suite. Its undemocratic to force down Western practices in our hungry bellies. They have no shame to suggest such unholy acts down our throats. Zimbabwe is and will remain a God fearing country.
Kuda Nkomo
Oxford

Editor - Why did you decide to cover this story differently from others. By screaming for our comments before we read the story shows your prejudice. I understand you have values, but keep these to your family and self. Failure to do so is reducing the credibility of a news site that i have always found quite informative and objective on the Zimbabwean situation.

The source of your prejudice obviously stems from the very fact that you do not understand the subject of gayism and lesbianism at all. All the time the terms are mentioned you immediately think about woman sleeping with woman or man sleeping with man. That's not the case. Homosexuality is a genetic condition that deserves equal treatment as other conditions such as albinos, left-handedness e.t.c.. It is not similar to HIV/AIDS which results from exchange of bodily fluids.

If anything, people need to be educated more about the condition, which many find themselves in. Some males naturally have female features in them? Examples include Gideon Gono, central bank Governor, Munyaradzi Hwengere, formerly of ZBC, Jonathan Moyo, former Zanu PF central committee member and many more. Take a closer look at these characters and let me know what you see.

I am not saying they sleep with other men. Neither am I saying they are members of GALZ. But they have a condition that we cannot ignore. They deserve community support. GALZ deserves to be congratulated for winning the award - if indeed they deserved it. I am not gay, but my interaction with people in the past 26 years should that we are born differently...and we have to accept this reality.
Hlalelo Nkiwane
Tsholotsho

Editor - Your paper is obviously getting desperate for hits. We blacks are by and
large marginalised in work places and western society, eg...the issue of
England football team black players etc. Now you want us to have a
debate on whether we should descriminate against gays and lesbians. I am
of the belief that if you have any problems with homosexuality then it's
you who is not sure of your sexuality. Remember homosexuality has long
been in our community.
Martin Takawira
Leeds, UK

Editor - Do not be fooled by this award. This just goes to show that western society in general and white people in particular are only interested in Africa to protect their selfish interests. At a time when Zimbabweans are suffering not only from unprecedented oppression and brutality but from the scourge of Aids, it is laughable that the organisation that has been chosen for recognition is none other than GALZ. What about all the organisations that have been fighting for freedom and constitutional redress, food for the people and children's rights to name but a few

GALZ obviously appeals to western society because it promotes western values and the West therefore, view it as one of their own. This is also the reason behind so much international awareness of the plight of Zimbabwean white farmers.
Dezy T
UK

Editor - Enlightened people will tell you that gays and lesbians are human beings. Human beings who have feelings and who are as able and as human as humans are. Only on Friday we were remembering those killed just because of who they were - holocaust. Have we really not learnt? Remember the Gukurahundi era when people were killed not because they had done any wrongs but for who they were.

Have we read of times when anyone born with disability was regarded as a curse, when albinos were regarded as a sign of some ill in the family. Weren't they killed just because of who they were.?

Gay or not gay has nothing to do with being Africa or British or Japanese etc . Anybody who says it is unAfrican should know all that has happened is that gay people in Africa since time immemorial have, have always been there and have not come out only for fear of persecution. It has everything to do with one's sexual orientation - ask mother nature.
Ngiyabonga e Ndlovu!
Mtaka Ndlamadoda
Mhaha wa Lukowa

Editor - I am a physics student in South Africa. I was born and raised in Zim and am 27 years of age. I am a male and not gay. I believe Gay people have a case and we will gain nothing by trying to silence their voice. It is not man that decides
our hormones level but some higher force. A person is physically identified as a man or woman depending on their genitals. This definition is not complete because one's emotional configuration (which is determined by our hormonal levels) must be put into account. The fact I was born physically a man and my emotional configuration is also that of a man does not mean that my neigbour is like me. He may feel like a woman. A woman trapped in a man's body or a man trapped in a woman's body.

Who are to judge? Who are to tell them that what they feel is wrong? Who are we to say what they are immoral beings? Only those God ordained have that right to judge. It so happens that the Son of God, born of the virgin Mary, Jesus Christ, who we the Christians of the present day claim to follow once said that he how has not sinned must take the stand. He warned us about judging but we do it everyday of ourlives. Let the gays and lesbians be free. If you don't like them or their ways, you have a right to choose not to associate with them but I am not sure if we do have that right to condemn and judge them. I have no gay friend and have never being with gay people, but I feel they have a case. I have only seem guy that act like women and these peopel I am told are the gay people. I respect them for as long as they respect me. I treat them like any other human-being.

I believe in a free world, where all men and women alike have the freedom to decide their fate, a world in which an ocean of possibilities lie before us and the liberty is ours to choose the path which to follow, be it that path leads to life or death.
Golden
Republic of South Africa

Editor - It's not about human rights activism, it's about a people with a culture. Galz is group of opportunists, who are just capitalizing on Zimbabwe's political instability. We have a culture, which only realizes that a man and woman only should be intimately involved. In as much as I do not like the current government, on this one I will stand with them. Ok let's say a man marries another man, what will they tell their mother they just brought home? A malokazana or a mkhwenyana? See it just does not add up. I am a Christian, but I am trying to look at it at cultural level still it does not make sense. The only thing is I am still wondering how galz has managed to exist to this time in Zimbabwe. We have a very rich culture which does not need to be diluted by some folks taking advantage of the political climate in Zimbabwe. From my understanding Black Zimbabweans picked on this stupid bahavior because some rich white people offered large sums of money to their poor subjects. It's shame that there are some organizations that give awards to such shameful groups of people
Samaita
The original hard Zimbabwean Type

"You are not to go to bed with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination"

(LEVITICUS 18:22)

Editor - The Refiner's Fire is not here to judge homosexuals. God gives us all choices, and He is the ultimate Judge. However, we ARE here to warn those who are living in sin of any kind, that they WILL answer to God on Judgment Day.
Whether or not you feel you are "gay" by choice or by birth, God makes it abundantly clear that homosexuality is "an abomination" to Him (Leviticus 18:22) - "You are not to go to bed with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination."

There are many homosexuals in this world. Many of them are struggling with their identities. Some are confused and unhappy; while others have decided to "come out of the closet" and be who they are, regardless of the consequences. The latter, unfortunately, include high-profile television and movie personalities who use their positions to force their agendas on their viewing audiences. These people have perpetrated immense damage upon the world as a whole by portraying homosexuality as "normal" and pushing for its carte blanche acceptance.

Deuteronomy 22:5 "A woman shall not wear man's clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman's clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God."

Furthermore, God places homosexuals on the same level as murderers and liars:
1 Tim 1:9-11 - 9 We are aware that Torah is not for a person who is righteous, but for those who are heedless of Torah and rebellious, ungodly and sinful, wicked and worldly, for people who kill their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral - both heterosexual and homosexual - slave dealers, liars, perjurers, and anyone who acts contrary to the sound teaching 11 that accords with the Good News of the Glorious and blessed God.

I must say that the Bible is very clear about the fact that homosexuality is wrong. It is clear that it is a sin. It is also clear that anyone who does not repent and turn from sin by accepting Jesus Christ into their hearts will go to hell.
GOD CREATED ADAM AND EVE NOT ADAM AND STEVE.
Tendai Chitanda
New Zealand

Editor - It is not right to be gay and i think all the gay people should be kicked out of Zimbabwe.
Bee
Slough, UK

Editor - Indaba yezinkonkoni ayizwisiswa kuphela ngabantu abacabanga ukuthi yibo kuphela abakwazi izidingo zomuntu wonke, abantu abafana noMugabe and uJonathan Moyo. Ngesingami ngithi izinkonkoni zamukeleke kakhulu emphakathini okhululekileyo ngoba yindaba yemizwa okukhulunywa ngayo lapha. Abakuzwayo asikuzwa thina esingezona izinkonkoni, bazozifihla kuze kubenini. Abakhululwe njengomuntu wonke bathandane, baganane njengaye wonke umuntu.
Njabu
UK

Editor - I'm a lesbian and I live together with my girlfriend from Zimbabwe. In Holland it is not a problem to be lesbian or gay. People respect each other. It doesn't matter if you are gay/lesbian or hetero. In Holland you can live the life which makes and feels you happy.

It is so sad that the gays and lesbians in Zimbabwe cannot live the life that they really want. It is only possible behind closed doors where nobody can see you and that is not good. Let people be who they want to be...God loves everyone!!!!! And why should people in Zimbabwe not do the same? If you are a mother, father, brother or sister you want to see the one you care about happy or not??!!

I live a happy life in Holland with my Zimbabwean girlfriend. People respect us for who we are. LIFE IS ALL ABOUT LOVE AND RESPECT! That's why Zimbabwe should embrace the gays and lesbians!!!!
Anita
Holland

Editor - It's a strange world, but unfortunately we are helping the opposition. Even Bin Laden is recognised as a hero in the Islamic/Arab circles but that doesn't give him recognition elsewhere. But our own circles are neither gay nor lesbian, so what recogntion Mr Editor.

We are children of the most High, and He has taught us to abhor sexual immorality including homosexuality. To those who identify with 'me ' here - l refer you to the BIBLE, particularly the Books of Levictus[18.22, 20.13], Romans [1:24-27,1:24,6:9] 1Corinthians [6:9, 5]. There are many other passages in scripture on this issue of Goddard & Muparutsa. Moral decadence must never be entertained or promoted as we have seen in the so called first world.

Zimbabwe and indeed Bible-believing people out there do not need to recognise these people, they dont deserve our recognition, we need to pray for them to come back home, it is a spirit that must be tamed before it tames us all like it has done to the capitals of the western world.
Ed Tafi
Leicester, UK
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